On this episode, I was joined by Sara Steffen, Senior Director of Customer Marketing at Nutanix. She shares her philosophy on building an open, honest, and supportive team culture, why content amplification is near and dear to her heart, the amplification checklist her team put together and why the Nutanix Select program is one of the most enjoyable projects she’s ever done. Without further ado, here’s my conversation with Sara. 

Margot Leong: Hey Sara, thank you so much for joining the podcast. 

Sara Steffen: Very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Margot Leong: Would love to get that sort of 30,000 foot view of your background and journey to customer marketing and where you are today at Nutanix. 

Sara Steffen: Yeah, of course. So I spent about 10 great years at Cisco. And while I was there had a variety of different marketing roles across running thought leadership campaigns and the events marcom team, which I all loved. And then I had the opportunity to manage our customer marketing team at Cisco. And when I found that piece of marketing, I really felt like I had found my home. I absolutely love it. And so I was lucky enough to move from Cisco and find a similar role at Nutanix a little over four years ago to run their customer marketing function.

And I think anyone that knows me, in my real life, I’m a connector. Like I get energy from people. I love connecting people. And so not only did I have great teams, both at Cisco and Nutanix while I’ve been running these functions, you get this real time feedback from customers, which is just invaluable and to hear their stories and to hear how technology has impacted their lives or their team’s lives. It’s just been really powerful to me. And it’s one of the funnest jobs I’ve ever had. 

Margot Leong: That’s amazing. I mean, from a career standpoint, we go through a lot of different roles or we try out a lot of different things. And I feel like a lot of that is just moving you closer towards learning more about yourself and where you get joy from, where you get energy from. And so to be able to get joy and energy from connecting with customers, getting that feedback, it’s such a dream role in that regard.

Sara Steffen: I agree completely. And I think it’s this very interesting part of marketing, right? Where it is very unique in terms of the types of content you’re creating. The stories that you’re hearing, who you’re interacting with, visibility to your own executives. It is this little piece of marketing that is very powerful, and it’s really fun to be a part of it.

Margot Leong: And so tell us about what your current role at Nutanix entails. I’d love to hear all about that. 

Sara Steffen: So my team does a lot at Nutanix. We are all very busy folks. But basically we have a scope that includes customer marketing: traditional customer case studies, video testimonials, placing customer speakers at our events. So that’s one part of the team structure. 

And then in addition to that, we also have our Nutanix community, which is an online community. I think of it as a virtual watering hole where there’s technology conversations happening, questions are asked and answered right from the community, tons of information, podcasts blogs, everything lives in that community. It’s a great resource for everyone internally and externally at Nutanix plus our customers, partners and prospects.

Then we have our user group program. We also run all of our customer advisory boards globally, and then we have Nutanix University, which is how individuals get trained and certified on Nutanix technology. So pretty big scope for the team. 

Margot Leong: I love that they’re all interconnected. They all obviously touch the customer in different ways, but I think that’s pretty cool that you are thinking about this pretty holistically, versus I know in other organizations, it can be a little bit more, okay. Customer marketing lives within the marketing org and then success or support or some education lives under professional services. So I like that it all comes together. 

And I think the great thing about marketing is that you can also think about scale, how to leverage other types of technologies or marketing know how to amplify all these different things. How do you think about organizing teams? What’s your philosophy there, especially for those of us who are newer on the management side and are starting to build out a team. It’s always really interesting to think about and to hear other people’s thought processes around how they would structure that. 

Sara Steffen: The team structure matters a lot, right? Because you want people to feel like they have ownership and autonomy. You also don’t want people to feel overwhelmed, right? So it’s this constant balance of, is there someone on the team that has too much on their plate or not enough on their plate? And I think that really comes down to just open and honest dialogues that I have with my team about how’s the week going? Do you have too much, do you not have enough?

And I think that the culture I’ve built at Nutanix and what’s really important to me as my team culture is that we are very open and honest with each other. And so if someone is underwater a little bit or needs some help, I don’t think there’s any shame in raising your hand and saying, Hey, I need some backup on this.

And I feel like across the team, when I look at the people on my virtual Zoom room right now they’re just really good people. And I think at the end of the day, they have fun together, which matters a ton to me. We all spend more time at work than we do anywhere else. So we might as well have some fun while we’re doing it.

They’re just really good people who care about each other. They care about their work. They care about our customers, which shines through literally every single day when all of them have customer interactions. The whole culture is incredibly supportive of each other.

When someone does need help or not even help, they just wanna brainstorm an outside perspective or they wanna connect the dots somewhere, right. So that to me is the most important thing is just making sure everyone’s balanced in terms of work life integration. And then also building this culture that’s really fun and is full of trust and respect and collaboration.

Margot Leong: When it comes to thinking about team culture, there’s the one to one aspect, being with your people directly, you setting the example tops down in terms of how you want the culture to be, but is there any tips that you have when it comes to building a very supportive culture where people do feel comfortable to not only share with you, but also jump in and share with each other. 

Sara Steffen: There’s a couple things that I do and couple things that I’ve learned across my career. So one, and this is my favorite tip is I do a lot of walking one-on-ones, which I think have gotten increasingly important as we’ve all been working from home for the past two plus years.

I will ping someone ahead of time when we have a one on one and say, are you okay to walk? Is there anything you need me to look at? Or is there any feedback you need me to share on screen? And if not, they’re welcome to walk. They don’t have to. But from my own perspective, I find that I’m much more focused in the conversation and really all in, because I’m not getting instant messages. I’m not looking at my phone getting text messages. I’m not getting emails, right? 

So all the pings and outside noise just stops and I can be very present in the conversation. That’s where some of just the, how are you, what are you doing this weekend? Like those types of conversations, like it’s not just all about work.

And that to me is really important. So I think that’s one big thing I was already doing. And I think I’ve done more so the past two years and just selfishly, it’s good for me to move. Like I need to be outside and see the sun and gotta get the steps in. I’m a very competitive fitness person. 

 The other thing that’s really important from a management perspective is to show up when things aren’t going great for someone on your team, right? Whether that’s work wise, like I think my team knows I very much trust them and it am very like hands off, but in a very respectful way that I trust that they know very well what they’re doing. And if they need air cover, if they need something, they will come and tell me, and I will be there in a moment for them.

 The other thing is on the personal side of it, when someone’s having health problems or there’s a family crisis or whatever that is. How you authentically show up really matters. Especially in those times when things aren’t going perfectly. And that’s something that’s really important to me is that I show up in an authentic way and I do truly care about every single person on my team.

And when something isn’t going right for them, whether professionally or personally, I hope they feel that support, that means the world to me. 

On the fun side, right? Like I do try to do, even in the virtual world that we’ve all been working, we have done fun stuff as a team, right? There’s no agenda. We’re not talking about work. We’re doing a virtual scavenger hunt that my kid put together or we did a virtual farm tour one week. We did virtual happy hours. So it’s just that stuff where it’s we’re more than just our work and let’s connect that way. And I think that’s a really powerful way to build a nice community and a culture within your team. 

Margot Leong: People have different philosophies when it comes to managing. Some people will say, Hey it’s good to keep a little bit of distance from your direct reports. There’s the line between friend and manager. Do you have any opinions on one or the other? How do you think about that? 

Sara Steffen: The most important thing that I’ve learned being a manager for however many years it’s been now is you should be the manager that you are. And so whatever feels comfortable to you is how you should lead. Personally, my lines are really blurred and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. We chat about movies and pop culture and all of the things. And we also talk about work and obviously my team gets a ton done. They are a powerhouse.

My personal style is that I’m gonna be less formal than maybe some managers would be comfortable. And it’s really all about everyone’s comfort level. 

Margot Leong: I am very similar when it comes to managing as well. I think it’s hard to pretend to be different than you are. It actually may be more effort sometimes to do that when you could be just channeling it in other ways. 

Sara Steffen: Yeah, I completely agree. As you grow in your career, you also realize who are you as a manager and who do you want to be? When I first took on management roles, I was like, what should a manager be? And it wasn’t authentic to me. And I think that you could tell that if you were on my team at that time. 

And now I feel like I have a comfort level, right, of who am I as a person authentically. And how do I wanna show up for my team and Nutanix and our customers and all of those good things. So being true to who you are and your comfort level and what brand you wanna build and who you are as a person. 

Margot Leong: What’s your philosophy on how often to have the team meet, whether that’s biweekly or like weekly meetings on the sort of work side, and then how often to think about the more fun stuff you mentioned. 

Sara Steffen: It really matters on the manager plus the team. Everyone has their own philosophies on those things. I’m not a meeting for meeting’s sake person. With the amount of time we’re all spending on virtual meetings, we should really be all thinking about how are we spending our time, our team’s time? Where are we driving the most impact? And where are we just meeting for meeting’s sake when it could be an email conversation that we solve or an instant message. That’s something that just is top of mind for me. So I really look at the team, how often do we need to meet really based on what do we have on our plates and also how long those meetings need to be.

That’s another thing we’re really thinking through and being very thoughtful about. How long are these meetings? Does that really need to be two hours? Or could we do it in, a half an hour or give people just a break in the middle of the day to eat. I mean, those things are important. 

We connect on a regular basis especially with all of my directs. And then I also have skip levels with anyone that doesn’t report to me. I wanna get to know them. I wanna hear how their worlds are, what do they need from me? What support do they need or guidance or anything like that. So I meet on a regular basis with everyone on my team. 

Margot Leong: Switching gears to another topic, which is super near and dear to your heart is amplification. I think that this will be really interesting to go into. When we think about customer marketing there’s obviously different philosophies to think about how it lives within an organization, but something that I think you can fall prey to a lot of times is that you think about your organization as customer content machines or robots, taking those customer relationships and then figuring out how to package them up in a way that then would be useful for other teams, right? Whether that’s press or case studies, speaking engagements, all that good stuff. 

That puts us at a disadvantage. If you want to get more visibility at the top, if you wanna be seen as more strategic, you also cannot be seen as just purely in service of other teams. And so there’s a lot of value in thinking about not only how does what we do align to larger executive goals, but will this be valuable for the business? And how does this lead to growth? How can I get more from the content that I’m producing? What can I do to partner with different teams? How do we think about this? I think all of that is really fascinating.

So I’d love to get your thoughts on how you think about amplification, which I know is something that is the cornerstone of what you believe in and that you train your team on. 

Sara Steffen: Amplification is near and dear to my heart as my entire team knows. To all the points you just said, I think there’s a lot as customer marketers that we can do when it comes to amplification. If you start at the basics, your team, right? Customer marketers are spending a great deal of time figuring out what customer stories to tell, creating the content, getting that content approved.

We’re spending customer time on the interviews, whether that’s video or written or a press release, right? Any of those things, it doesn’t really matter. We’re spending our customer’s time. And so at the end of the day, whatever the content is that’s being created, if we’re just putting that up on whatever your site is and thinking the people will come. That’s an outdated way of looking at it. 

And for us, amplification is incredibly important. And I think that the collaboration that my customer marketing team has at Nutanix with our social team, with our PR team, with our creative, with our digital, with our video teams, in terms of how do we package these stories up? How do we get them out across all of our channels? 

One of the things we did over the last year is we created an amplification checklist and this wasn’t because amplification wasn’t happening. It was just a way for us to say, okay, here’s all the external opportunities for amplification. Here’s all the channels that are available. 

Here’s all the internal channels. Are you putting it in your newsletters? Is it going on your Slack or whatever your instant messaging. Is it going out in executive top levels? Is it inserted in QBRs? All of the things. 

It’s a document that drives us in terms of okay, make sure you’ve literally checked all the virtual boxes that make sense for this particular story. That’s one thing that has just put some more rigor around it. 

And it’s also, if you have net new team members joining, you’re making sure that they know here’s all the things you can do internally and externally to amplify the stories that you’re telling which is hugely valuable. 

Anyone in customer marketing understands the power of testimonials and the power of the customer voice and how impactful that is in the sales cycle, how impactful that is when you have someone who’s a prospect and wants to talk to an existing customer and you can connect the dots and find that person to have that call with them.

 The other thing we’re continuing to do more and more of is one, asking our customers, right? So the customers that are featured, we’re trying to make them the hero, right? So sometimes it’s less about their company and it’s more about them as an individual thought leader in their industry.

And so when we create that type of content, then they’re equally excited hopefully to promote it, right. They wanna put it on their LinkedIn. They wanna put it on their Twitter. They’re in the spotlight, which is great. It’s great for us. And it’s great for Nutanix and it’s great for them as a customer.

So that’s something that’s the dream is when you have a customer that’s so excited about the content you’re creating that they’ll promote it on their own personal handles. Plus if their company is equally excited about it, which should be the goal, that the company then also cross promotes it. That’s a big one. 

And then the third bucket is when we have joint stories with partners. When we work with one of our partners on a joint customer story, we’re both amplifying it across both our channels. That’s double the impact right there. So those are my kind of big ones when I think about amplification. 

And then the other thing I will add is that sometimes customer marketers, create a ton of content and we put it out and we don’t revisit it. How can you look at taking little blurbs from a certain industry, right? So maybe it’s healthcare quotes or FSI quotes. How do you package that up into something that feels new, right? That’s just industry specific with customer quotes or how do you take a two minute long video and slice it into a bunch of different 15 and 32 second clips that you can promote on social?

Those are some of the things that we’re really focused on and we’ve seen good results from. 

Margot Leong: I think the great thing about thinking about amplification in this way is that it also forces you to put on a slightly different hat or like it trains you in a different area of marketing. Which could be a bit more, maybe growth focused and thinking about, okay, what is the power of the content outside of just creating it? I think similar to what you were saying was I don’t really believe in meetings for meetings sake. We shouldn’t believe in content for content sake either.

 So everything that we do also needs to be tied to some sort of learning about whether the content is valuable or not. And so being a part of thinking about amplification is also a part of that. It’s necessary discipline that is very important to then carry on to whatever people end up doing in the future, whether it’s staying in customer marketing or going somewhere else. 

If I were to back up a little bit, this amplification checklist, so basically does this mean that any time. Let’s say that I’m on your team. And I just finished working with a customer on, let’s say a case study. So then then I have the amplification checklist.

Does this mean that every time someone on the team creates this new piece of content, they go through the checklist and figure out, send it here, send it there, work with different teams on this and this. Is that the process that it goes through every time there’s a new piece of content? Or how does that typically work? 

Sara Steffen: I think the people that have been around for a while know it. But I think it’s more just a double check. And I think to your point, there’s specific industries, maybe they don’t have a newsletter, this one does. So they have to pick and choose what you’re doing on that.

The idea behind it was here’s a one pager that you can refer to at any moment in time. And we literally scoured and put in every external area that you can think of and every internal area or channel you can think of. And so that’s the idea is it’s just something that people would refer back to if, and when they need it. And then also to get net new people up to speed. 

Margot Leong: There’s a lot of power in operationalizing processes and part of the reason why I’m bringing this up is because I’m terrible at it. And so anytime people are like, okay we’re doing stuff. And if we put a process in place or we codified the process, there’s a lot of value in that for the long term. So anytime when people are like, I have a checklist for this, I’m like, oh my God, that’s amazing. 

Sara Steffen: It’s also not my strong suit. I’ll be honest. My team helps me with it. 

When you think about customer marketing, our customers are doing us a favor by participating in case studies, events, videos, and yes. Are they helping their brand and elevating their brand? Absolutely. But I think the more that you stay customer focused on okay, this person took time out of their very busy schedule, I feel like we owe it to them. We being like big customer marketing to make sure that it gets the visibility it deserves. So it’s not just good for your company. It’s also whatever sales team you have is building these relationships and you’re coming in to build upon those.

And so the more that you can show your customers like, wow, this performed really well. Check this out. That’s a great go back to them and a feedback loop on how strong and powerful their content was. 

Margot Leong: Amplification is also important for visibility. There’s a piece of this where you’re getting to know different teams and what types of content would be most valuable for them, but also what packaging of that content would be valuable. 

Sara Steffen: Completely. Yeah. And I think the collaboration at Nutanix that we have across kind of the teams, you do look at it through their lens in terms of that’s not gonna perform well, but if we did this, it might. Then the next story you look at differently, right?

You’re like last time I remember they said, this wouldn’t perform well, so let’s do this again. And then, look at the metrics, right? Look at how things are performing and why is one thing performing so much better than another story. Is it the length? Is it the title? Is it the brand, the customer? So there’s all those learnings that you can try to glean out of the metrics that you’re getting. Whatever your company is looking at and measuring and then change it up as you need to next time to make it more impactful if one story didn’t perform as well as another.

Margot Leong: In terms of metrics, are there any typical ones that your team is also looking at to gauge some of these things? 

Sara Steffen: We’re looking at the same metrics that probably most companies are.

 So from a social perspective, we’re looking at engagement, click through rates. From a video perspective, I think it’s important to look at obviously overall views. The other thing that’s really important to look at is the drop off.

So if you’re creating a bunch of five minute videos and the average view time across your videos is a minute, then you probably need to shorten your videos. And honestly, in 2022, I don’t think very many people are watching five minute talking head videos. 

Let the metrics help you make your job easier. If you’re creating these really long form videos and you’re like, oh my gosh, no one’s watching these past 58 seconds. Then let’s stop. Or to my earlier point, cut it up into four different videos. And all of a sudden you have four different pieces of content that you can amplify over any given period of time and you make it all about different subjects, right? So there’s a lot you can do. 

I’m a big metrics person, I geek out on metrics. So I love them. As customer marketers, it’s really important to us not to just put stuff on a site and never again, look to see how it’s performing. Cause it tells you a lot. 

Margot Leong: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s very sobering to look at the metrics, for example, like a five minute video. But nowadays, everything in B2B is changing so quickly. There’s a ton of influence from the B2C side. The average consumer, you are still trying to hit them emotionally. Fostering some of that discipline and realizing what is the material effect it has on someone and some of those metrics can get you closer to that. That’s all so important for people to understand as marketers in general. 

The last thing that I wanted to spend some time chatting with you about and this is something that I think I’d heard you and someone on your team talking about this at another conference. I was so impressed by it. I’m really excited to get a chance to talk to you about it today, which is this Nutanix Select Experiences or program that you and your team put into place starting during COVID. So if you could share with us what that is, what the catalyst was behind it. I’d love to spend a little bit of time on that. 

Sara Steffen: Absolutely. So Nutanix Select is like my favorite project. So my team and I were brainstorming, when COVID hit, how do we do something for our customers in this time? And yes, we can send them swag and all those good things. But how do we actually provide an experience for them, a virtual experience that is either fun or will help them professionally.

And so we came up with this idea of Nutanix Select and they’re quarterly events. We poll our customers with ideas. So it’s very targeted to what they’re most interested in. And it really is a mix of fun versus things that will help them professionally. 

There’s no ask, there’s no sales cycle. It’s not a DG activity. It is literally you have done so much for us from a reference perspective, we wanna invite you to each of these one hour events. So we’ve done things everywhere from virtual presentation skills, which all of a sudden were very important. Social media best practices, so how do you up level your LinkedIn and Twitter profiles? To things like how do you make sure that you’re carving out time for your health and wellness during COVID? To a whiskey tasting over the holidays. So it really is a mix. 

We did a virtual barbecue class last summer that actually one of our customers ran, which was so much fun. And everyone got the ingredients and we all had our webcams on. We actually went to one of my team member’s houses and her dad barbecued for us, because I don’t barbecue. So that’s what we’ve tried to do is like that mix of there’s no ask in it. We always ask you for things, and this is a no ask. It’s just fun and come if you want to. 

And we’ve gotten really good feedback about it. And customers are super passionate and they also have built relationships with each other through the community that my team runs as well. And so they have a lot of fun and a lot of banter in those meetings and those conversations.

So it’s just been a fun, something different that I had never done in my career. This is just for you. And if you wanna come, and if it doesn’t work for your schedule, no problem. Catch the next one. And we’ve gotten really positive feedback about it. 

Margot Leong: I think there’s something really interesting here. I mean, it’s really powerful because it runs counter to how a lot of people are used to these sorts of relationships going. It’s literally just doing something to provide value for your customers regardless of whether or not it provides value for you. And of course, at the end of the day, like, it strengthens that bond. It strengthens that relationship, but it’s not so tied to that. It’s just more of a byproduct. You’re moving the relationship away from vendor relationship or whatever to friend. 

Sara Steffen: Part of the reason that we’ve gotten positive feedback about these Nutanix Select events is it’s not transactional right. And I think the other thing that customer marketers need to think about is are you reaching out to your customers right before a big event? And then they don’t hear from you again until nine months later when you need for them to speak at the same event? That’s not a win. So how can you have regular touch points with customers without being annoying? 

That’s my goal. That balance of you want them to feel like they’re having regular, authentic touch points with you throughout the year, right? You’re not only contacting them when you need something, but at the same time, you’re not contacting them too much where they’re like, please stop. That fine balance between the two. 

And again, it’s been fun for our team too, right? Just to your point to interact with the customers in a different way. And talk about social media best practices. And we literally had a beer tasting last night and everyone’s talking about their favorite brewing companies or the weirdest beer they ever tried. And it was just like a bunch of people in a virtual hangout. We didn’t talk shop and that’s okay. And so again, it’s one of my most favorite professional projects that I’ve ever had the opportunity to do.

Margot Leong: And you’re sourcing the experts mostly internally, right? 

Sara Steffen: We’ve outsourced some of them, but most of them have been relying on our internal experts of which there are many. But I mean, our social media team led the social media best practices. Someone in enablement led the virtual presentation skills. So it’s not a high dollar item to do these type of give back events as long as you have people willing in your organization to help out. And luckily at Nutanix, everyone jumps at this. They love the customer interaction. They love being in front of customers. We’re a very customer centered company. And so it’s been fun to see these kind of internal subject matter experts lead these and get to know our customers in a different way as well. 

Margot Leong: And Nutanix, the people that you are working with, what are those types of roles typically? Is this within IT usually? 

Sara Steffen: So for my team, it’s IT. 

Margot Leong: I think this goes to show for people that might be a little bit skeptical or questioning about what types of personas would this work with? I previously used to work at a company called Rubrik, which I believe you’re familiar with as well.

Yeah. That’s IT backup admins and sometimes there’s a perception that IT people can be more skeptical about marketing or a bit more cynical, and it’s hard to build relationships. I never found that to be the case. This is a great example of if you can create this sort of experience, which as you said, not a massive expense or a high budget type of thing to put together that you’re sourcing it in this really scrappy way with people that are excited. If you can do this with IT, people, honestly, I think you can do it with any type of role. 

Sara Steffen: Oh, agree. And I think the other thing is we poll them regularly. That’s the other thing that’s important is listening to the customers. So we might send out a survey with five or six event ideas or outside speaker ideas. And then what one are you most interested in? Or is there another category where you write one in? Otherwise they won’t come. If it’s not of interest, they’re not excited about it, then why do it? 

And so I think again, making sure that you’re looking through it with that outside lens, which, everyone at Nutanix tries really hard to do. And I think does a very good job of it is really important. Then, if they’re excited, they will come. And so anytime you have the opportunity to get outside perspective, I think it’s really valuable.

Margot Leong: Of course I love these sorts of events and I think that anytime that you take a bet, you do the first one and you’re never sometimes sure of what the feedback will be. And now that you’ve done this quite a few times, how has the feedback been? Is there anything that you’ve been surprised by, or like any particularly heartwarming stories? I’d love to hear about it.

Sara Steffen: I don’t think any surprises. If anything I’m just happy that people like it, right? I’m a big, let’s just pilot it and see if anyone comes. So I gotta tell you, the first one, I was a little nervous. But it’s just been nice feedback and again, it’s been a way for myself and my team to interact with some of our most passionate customers in a different way. And I think there’s funny stories told about in our presentation skills class, some fails, in terms of presentations and those types of things.

But I just feel like it’s been a really nice open dialogue. And different people come every time, which is the other thing. We always extend it to the same groups, but then maybe certain people aren’t as interested in one topic or another, or they’re on vacation or they have a conflict.

So it’s always a different mix of folks as well. Which is really nice, because it just extends who we’re getting to know. A joy has been just how much across Nutanix, people have been super open. The guy that did the virtual beer tasting yesterday, that is not his job. That is a passion project. He didn’t hesitate, like of course I’ll run a virtual beer tasting for your customers, right. So that kind of like willingness to just jump in, which has been just lovely to see across Nutanix. 

Margot Leong: Anything where you’re building bridges. With customer marketing, we’re really lucky in that we, in comparison to a lot of teams internally, we get a lot of exposure to customers. We get to see some of honestly the best sides of our customers. It is very rewarding in that way. And so then to be able to bring in internal people, you’re basically continuing to bridge that gap where they get to connect with customers and see how great they are.

I think it’s really valuable when you can knock down some of those walls and bring in more people. It’s really tremendous, honestly. And it’s very cool to be a part of that. 

Sara Steffen: That’s why I love my job. It’s a fun spot to be in marketing, I will tell you that. 

Margot Leong: That is a perfect place to wrap up. Sara, it was such a pleasure having you on. If people would like to connect with you or to learn more about where you’re working on what’s the way for them to reach you. 

Sara Steffen: I have a Twitter account, it’s just @saraesteffen, all one word. And then LinkedIn, it’s just Sara.Steffen. So would love to connect with anyone who’s listening and always happy to chat live through ideas or brainstorm.

So thank you so much for the opportunity, Margot. It’s been lovely chatting with you. And it’s such a nice part of marketing to be a part of. I hope that everyone who’s in customer marketing realizes how lucky they are to be where they are.

Thanks for tuning into this episode of Beating The Drum. For more interviews with advocacy leaders and tips on creating customers that will sing your praises, head on over to our website, beatingthedrum.com. If you enjoyed today’s show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts and don’t forget to rate and review us. If you know someone that would be a great fit for the show, I would love to hear about it. You can reach out at beatingthedrum.com. Take care, everybody.